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	<title>Comments on: Open Font Land</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Thomas Phinney</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-81732</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Phinney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-81732</guid>
		<description>"The legal situation for copyright of typeface designs is indeed murky, with the US law as written stating fairly plainly that typefaces are not copyrighted."

It's not murky at all. Typeface DESIGNS are not protected by US copyright, but font software (that is, a digital outline font in any common format) is.

I wrote about the various legal protections for fonts at some length on my blog, here: http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2006/01/legal_protectio.html

Cheers,

T</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The legal situation for copyright of typeface designs is indeed murky, with the US law as written stating fairly plainly that typefaces are not copyrighted.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not murky at all. Typeface DESIGNS are not protected by US copyright, but font software (that is, a digital outline font in any common format) is.</p>
<p>I wrote about the various legal protections for fonts at some length on my blog, here: <a href="http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2006/01/legal_protectio.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2006/01/legal_protectio.html</a></p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>T</p>
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		<title>By: jon</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-214</guid>
		<description>Agree, it would be great to include as many font developers and users as possible. My point is that this has not really been defined formally and is contingent on those who are involved with the project.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree, it would be great to include as many font developers and users as possible. My point is that this has not really been defined formally and is contingent on those who are involved with the project.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexandre Prokoudine</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandre Prokoudine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-212</guid>
		<description>Jon, when I was threw the idea of OpenFontLibrary to the public, I actually meant that it would be a place for font designers as well ;-)

If you remember, we already discussed availability of FontForge tutorials at OFL.org site</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, when I was threw the idea of OpenFontLibrary to the public, I actually meant that it would be a place for font designers as well <img src='http://rejon.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>If you remember, we already discussed availability of FontForge tutorials at OFL.org site</p>
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		<title>By: Raph Levien</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>Raph Levien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-210</guid>
		<description>This thread has inspired me to write up my ideas and post them on &lt;a href="http://typophile.com/node/16620" rel="nofollow"&gt;typophile&lt;/a&gt;, where I'm sure they will provoke a lively discussion. Readers here (including Jon, of course) are invited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread has inspired me to write up my ideas and post them on <a href="http://typophile.com/node/16620" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview ('/outbound/typophile.com');">typophile</a>, where I&#8217;m sure they will provoke a lively discussion. Readers here (including Jon, of course) are invited.</p>
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		<title>By: rejon.org : The Jon Phillips Portal</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>rejon.org : The Jon Phillips Portal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2005 00:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-209</guid>
		<description>[...] There is a good comment by Raph Levien about what he thinks a good font site would look like. I totally agree, however I feel that he has mistaken the intent of my comments and the intent of a hopeful Open Font Library community (a nonexistent community becuase the project has not really commenced yet). The goal and the type of community is yet to be made up and is hard to define through intentionality alone (ie, a site for professional quality designers working commercially, or some specific class of user/artist). I have found that the type and intention of community is usually built around the type of people that contribute to a project. Thus, the number one way to make a community the way you would like it is to pick up a shovel and start digging. If it is valuable to others they will pick up a shovel as well, and if not, then maybe the project is not so valuable.  Posted by jon @ 19:10:52 2005.12.04 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There is a good comment by Raph Levien about what he thinks a good font site would look like. I totally agree, however I feel that he has mistaken the intent of my comments and the intent of a hopeful Open Font Library community (a nonexistent community becuase the project has not really commenced yet). The goal and the type of community is yet to be made up and is hard to define through intentionality alone (ie, a site for professional quality designers working commercially, or some specific class of user/artist). I have found that the type and intention of community is usually built around the type of people that contribute to a project. Thus, the number one way to make a community the way you would like it is to pick up a shovel and start digging. If it is valuable to others they will pick up a shovel as well, and if not, then maybe the project is not so valuable.  Posted by jon @ 19:10:52 2005.12.04 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jon</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-208</guid>
		<description>You are correct that I do not fully understand what it will take to make font designers happ y and is why I posted about fonts. I had hoped that you and others would post about fonts in order to develop some discussion about what such a site would look like.

What you have written is very useful and I'm encouraged by your words.

However, you are making one assumption in that Open Font Library is trying to appeal to font designers. This is not defined. Hopefully, through discussion and contribution by people like yourself, other artists, designers, and developers, something will come of Open Font Library.

The main point though about Open Font Library is that it is in a sleeper state for a bout a year while infrastructure from Open Clip Art Library and ccHost are good enough to be used by an Open Font Library.

In the meantime, all those interested will hopefully speak up, join the mailing list and help to define all that is not defined, possible community included.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are correct that I do not fully understand what it will take to make font designers happ y and is why I posted about fonts. I had hoped that you and others would post about fonts in order to develop some discussion about what such a site would look like.</p>
<p>What you have written is very useful and I&#8217;m encouraged by your words.</p>
<p>However, you are making one assumption in that Open Font Library is trying to appeal to font designers. This is not defined. Hopefully, through discussion and contribution by people like yourself, other artists, designers, and developers, something will come of Open Font Library.</p>
<p>The main point though about Open Font Library is that it is in a sleeper state for a bout a year while infrastructure from Open Clip Art Library and ccHost are good enough to be used by an Open Font Library.</p>
<p>In the meantime, all those interested will hopefully speak up, join the mailing list and help to define all that is not defined, possible community included.</p>
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		<title>By: Raph Levien</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Raph Levien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 05:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-204</guid>
		<description>Hi Jon. Glad you saw my font posting and liked it! I enjoyed meeting you in San Francisco and would like to get back together with you.

But now I'm going to say some things that might sound harsh. Please take them in the spirit of constructive criticism in which they're meant.

The legal situation for copyright of typeface designs is indeed murky, with the US law as written stating fairly plainly that typefaces are not copyrighted. However, the interpretation of this law is nowhere nearly as clear. If you haven't already, go read Judge Whyte's order in Adobe vs. SSi.

In addition, as Josh says, I believe there are other countries in which copyright does cover font designs. I'm not sure which ones they are.

But it's really the underlying attitude here that's likely to get you into real trouble. In the typography world, it is _way_ not ethical to copy typeface designs. Copyright and (to a larger extent in US law) trademarks are the legal teeth behind this ethical principle.

Basically, if you're going to go to the trouble of making ripoff copies of existing fonts, why not spend a little more time and energy and make original designs instead? Then there's a real contribution to the world, and a takes nothing from the designers (and the foundries that maintain ownership) of the original fonts. There are indeed some who feel that releasing good fonts freely poisons the market for professional designers, but I don't mind pissing them off if the side effect is something new, something that is in some way better than what's come before.

You want to make a site for free fonts. That's cool. But, to really succeed, you're going to have to make it appealing to both producers and consumers of free fonts. Why will someone releasing a font want to use your site? There has to be an attitude of valuing the work that goes into making fonts.

Here's what I would want from such a site:

1. Thoughtful reviews, criticism, and feedback. If I submit a font that is truly professional quality, I want it recognized as such. If I don't, I'd like feedback that will help me get there. A great deal of that feedback will come from other font designers (the critique boards at typophile are a good example of how such a community can work).

2. Present the fonts. Show the font front and center. Myfonts.com has set the standard for how this is done in the commercial world. There's no reason why a free site can't do it even better. In fact, the ability to freely create GIF's is a feature that makes professional font designers nervous, so it's often crippled in one way or another, but if the font is free, there need be no such limitations. The mudTyper at vllg.com would be even cooler.

3. Render the samples well. That means good antialiasing. It means kerning. It means getting ligatures and "smart quotes" right by default. It means subpixel positioning. It means not using the hints in the font if that would in any way degrade the quality of the rendering. It doesn't have to mean LCD subpixel rendering, but if you've got a good implementation of that, it wouldn't hurt.

4. A feature I'd really love is the ability to submit individual glyphs for an existing font. This would be immediately useful for people wanting to extend the character set repertoire, but it could also be used for loosely-coupled collaboration to improve fonts. See the "Freestyle Remix Challenge" thread at typophile for an intriguing glimpse at what might come of such a thing.

Sorry if I'm coming across as something of a prima donna here. I really want a good site for free fonts to exist, and I'd love to take part in it. But I'm not convinced that you understand what it's gonna take to make font designers happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jon. Glad you saw my font posting and liked it! I enjoyed meeting you in San Francisco and would like to get back together with you.</p>
<p>But now I&#8217;m going to say some things that might sound harsh. Please take them in the spirit of constructive criticism in which they&#8217;re meant.</p>
<p>The legal situation for copyright of typeface designs is indeed murky, with the US law as written stating fairly plainly that typefaces are not copyrighted. However, the interpretation of this law is nowhere nearly as clear. If you haven&#8217;t already, go read Judge Whyte&#8217;s order in Adobe vs. SSi.</p>
<p>In addition, as Josh says, I believe there are other countries in which copyright does cover font designs. I&#8217;m not sure which ones they are.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s really the underlying attitude here that&#8217;s likely to get you into real trouble. In the typography world, it is _way_ not ethical to copy typeface designs. Copyright and (to a larger extent in US law) trademarks are the legal teeth behind this ethical principle.</p>
<p>Basically, if you&#8217;re going to go to the trouble of making ripoff copies of existing fonts, why not spend a little more time and energy and make original designs instead? Then there&#8217;s a real contribution to the world, and a takes nothing from the designers (and the foundries that maintain ownership) of the original fonts. There are indeed some who feel that releasing good fonts freely poisons the market for professional designers, but I don&#8217;t mind pissing them off if the side effect is something new, something that is in some way better than what&#8217;s come before.</p>
<p>You want to make a site for free fonts. That&#8217;s cool. But, to really succeed, you&#8217;re going to have to make it appealing to both producers and consumers of free fonts. Why will someone releasing a font want to use your site? There has to be an attitude of valuing the work that goes into making fonts.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what I would want from such a site:</p>
<p>1. Thoughtful reviews, criticism, and feedback. If I submit a font that is truly professional quality, I want it recognized as such. If I don&#8217;t, I&#8217;d like feedback that will help me get there. A great deal of that feedback will come from other font designers (the critique boards at typophile are a good example of how such a community can work).</p>
<p>2. Present the fonts. Show the font front and center. Myfonts.com has set the standard for how this is done in the commercial world. There&#8217;s no reason why a free site can&#8217;t do it even better. In fact, the ability to freely create GIF&#8217;s is a feature that makes professional font designers nervous, so it&#8217;s often crippled in one way or another, but if the font is free, there need be no such limitations. The mudTyper at vllg.com would be even cooler.</p>
<p>3. Render the samples well. That means good antialiasing. It means kerning. It means getting ligatures and &#8220;smart quotes&#8221; right by default. It means subpixel positioning. It means not using the hints in the font if that would in any way degrade the quality of the rendering. It doesn&#8217;t have to mean LCD subpixel rendering, but if you&#8217;ve got a good implementation of that, it wouldn&#8217;t hurt.</p>
<p>4. A feature I&#8217;d really love is the ability to submit individual glyphs for an existing font. This would be immediately useful for people wanting to extend the character set repertoire, but it could also be used for loosely-coupled collaboration to improve fonts. See the &#8220;Freestyle Remix Challenge&#8221; thread at typophile for an intriguing glimpse at what might come of such a thing.</p>
<p>Sorry if I&#8217;m coming across as something of a prima donna here. I really want a good site for free fonts to exist, and I&#8217;d love to take part in it. But I&#8217;m not convinced that you understand what it&#8217;s gonna take to make font designers happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Triplett</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Triplett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-197</guid>
		<description>A clarification: font *bitmaps* are not covered by copyright *in many countries*.  Font hints are covered by copyright.  Also, in some countries even font bitmaps are copyrightable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A clarification: font *bitmaps* are not covered by copyright *in many countries*.  Font hints are covered by copyright.  Also, in some countries even font bitmaps are copyrightable.</p>
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		<title>By: jon</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-196</guid>
		<description>I'm not the authority, but have talked about this with knowlegeable people. It seems that fonts are not covered by copyright, but the technology and various devices around them are legally encumbered. This is a very big loophole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not the authority, but have talked about this with knowlegeable people. It seems that fonts are not covered by copyright, but the technology and various devices around them are legally encumbered. This is a very big loophole.</p>
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		<title>By: Damjan</title>
		<link>http://rejon.org/2005/11/27/open-font-land/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Damjan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejon.org/?p=244#comment-195</guid>
		<description>How do you mean fonts are not covered by copyright? are you sure?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you mean fonts are not covered by copyright? are you sure?</p>
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